The media is going to beat the drum over Mitt Romney's Mormonism!
The media will make this into an issue. They will commence to yakking about it incessantly. They want to make sure the American people are well aware of the Mitt's religious persuasion and the danger it poses to the general public. We will be hearing a lot about the Mormons and Mormonism for the next year. It might be educational
The media has tried to convince us that Saddam Hussein is a martyr, but that's not really panning out. They have run columns claiming that Saddam's unprofessional hanging has somehow revitalized his image. The truth is that Saddam's death hasn't caused nearly as much outrage as a few cartoons or a statement by the Pope. He was pretty expendable, which is why Bush went after him in the first place.
posted by Miss Carnivorous @ 4:09 PM
23 Comments:
The main problem with Mormonism is that it is so transparently fraudulent. Not that many other religions are less so, but Mormonism was founded more recently in the 19th century by Joseph Smith, who made it all up, as a great deal of scholarship has shown.
Joseph Smith is no wackier than Jesus or Mohammed or Joan of Arc or L.Ron Hubbard. certifiably insane all of them! But the practicing of those religions can be very beneficial for society.
I tend to think that religion has done more harm than good. As someone once said, good people tend to do good, and evil people tend to do evil, but to get good people to do evil requires religion.
Gary you tend to think that religion has done more harm than good. What about the Soviet Union and the evil prepetrated upon people by the government or Red China or Cambodia or North Korea?
Any religion causing that evil?
Are the Ten Commandments a vessel for good men to cause evil? Are the teachings of Jesus Christ a cause of evil. Are the teachings of Buddha evil? As a rule evil tends to fear religion. Are you afraid Gary?
Gary will not answer to the fact that the secularists have killed way more millions than the religious have. He skirts the issue whenever he is asked about it.
Gary, every single liberal value you espouse came from religion. Well maybe not your love of gay marriage or abortion. But why else would you say to kill is wrong. Who says killing is wrong? Why is it wrong? Who decides what is right or wrong? Most people in the world think killing is just great. Then Moses comes along and god tells him it isn't. And moses spreads the word and it reverberates across time and smacks liberal secularists in the back of the head. Obviously it skipped Stalin and Mao.
Texas, I did not say that religion was the source of all evil and I recognize the evil done by Communist governments which were atheistic. Actually I am skeptical of ideology in general. To paraphrase Charles Fort, I cannot quite accept that the products of human minds are worthy of belief.
Gary you said and I quote " I tend to think that religion has done more harm than good", "... to get good people to do evil requires religion". You claim " I am skeptical of ideology in general",
yet you espouse an atheistic, liberal ideology. Remember the old saying, " People in glass houses should not throw stones".
I am not an atheist. Nor do I subscribe to a liberal ideology, although I will accept being called a liberal, given my position on most issues.
Gary your friend in another post claimed that you were an evolutionist. If you accept Darwins
theory on evolution than you are an Athiest. If you believe in God than you must accept a religious ideology therefore your blanket statements condeming religion
tends to describe you as at best an Agnostic or more likely an Athiest.
Typo in last post- Atheist
I am not an atheist in that I believe in God. I do believe in evolution in that it is firmly established by scientific evidence. But then I forgot that you don't believe in science. I suppose you believe that the Earth is 6000 years old too? Belief in God and evolution are not incompatible. So says the largest Christian body, by the way, the Catholic Church.
Gary I'll say it again you are an idiot. Science is not a belief.
You cannot win an argument so you resort to falsehoods. You are an Atheist. You started out attacking
religion and you admit to being an evolutionist which in no way bothers me. However you do not understand that if you claim a belief in evolution then you also reject God. All religions based on the belief in the Jewish God believe that God created the earth and man and all other things.
Evolution is not a belief consistent with Judaism or Christianity or Islam. You must have made up your own religion and god to believe in evolution and a supreme being and if that is true than you are no different than all of those that you deride.
I'm an idiot? Pope John Paul said that evolution is compatible with belief in God. Was he an idiot or an atheist? Now, I am not a Christian, and I never said I believe in the "Jewish God" as you put it. The founding fathers of this country were Deists who believed in a Creator but were not Christians.
Do you accept that the Earth is billions of years old? Just curious.
You do not belive in evolution Gary, or yopu would not be a liberal. You would not expect the strong to support the weak!
I consider myself a Jeffersonian liberal and a JFK Democrat.
Gary you are a liar. The majority of the founding fathers were Christians. Thomas Jefferson may have been a deist as you put it but acknowledged the importance of Jewish/Christian teachings. The Pope did not acknowledge that evolution as theorised by Darwin
was compatible with Christian teachings. The Pope does not accept that man evolved from apes.
You are a disingenious little man who tries to twist facts to fit your argument. Call any Catholic Priest and ask him if the Pope accepts mans evolvement from apes.
If you truly are a deist than you must support the teachings of intelligent design in public schools. I will tell you again that science is not a belief. Science is a discipline and is not subject to belief or disbelief. The scientific method of proving theories with incontrivertible evidence is not subject to belief but to acceptance. I accept science when the proof given is indisputable otherwise science is only theory. If you find science to be a belief than you are a fool.
I resent being called a liar. Can you not accept that someone could be honestly mistaken? I do not believe that I am mistaken, however. Read Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (October 22, 1996). It can be found at wwww.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm
Madison, Jefferson, Adams and Washington were certainly Deists. Look it up. Sure they said some nice things about Christian values. So would I. Jefferson, I believe, once said that he was a true Christian in that he subscribed to the moral teachings of Jesus. However,Jefferson thought that the virgin birth, and the other miracles of the Bible were fables and superstitions. I could provide you with numerous citations. Not a Christian as most would define it.
I do not support the teaching of intelligent design or creation science in the public schools because they are not science. Teach it in a philosophy class, perhaps.
You make a good point about belief. Let me rephrase my position then--I accept the theory of evolution as being well-established.
Religion, of course, is purely a matter of belief or faith, in that there is no "indisputable evidence."
Hey, play nice you 2!
Gary you claim the founding fathers were deists which is again twisting the facts. There were perhaps four deists if you include Unitarians as Deists. George Washington, according to all records, was an Episcopalian and a vestryman in the Episcopalian Church. Out of the founding fathers that signed the Declaration of Independence four out of fifty six were deists and the rest folowers of Christian doctrine. I read the link that you provided and it states in a longer worded version the same thing that I stated, that the Catholic Church does not accept that man is evolved from ape. Quote from Pope Pius XII "... theories of evolution which, in accordance with the philosophies inspiring them, consider the spirit as emerging from forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are incompatible with the truth about man." Quote Pope John Paul II " The moment of transition to the spiritual cannot be the object of this kind of observation, which never the less can discover at the experimental level a series of very valuable signs indicating what is specific to the human being." To break this down: While plants and animals may have evolved over time man and his spirit were created by God. Good try though.
In the end the Catholic Church accepts reality because, as the article I cited states "truth cannot contradict truth." They eventually rehabilitated Galileo.
To quote: "In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII had already stated that there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith about man and his vocation.." with certain qualifications.
And John Paul went on: "new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."
The Church cannot, of course, accept atheistic evolution, but is clearly moving toward theistic evolution.So have mainline Protestants although the fundamentalists are holding out, and probably always will. Many of them believe the Earth, indeed the Universe, is less than 10,000 years old, a view that as is mistaken and contrary to fact as the idea that the sun revolved around the Earth.
Gary as I said the Pope does not accept mans evolution from apes.
You can be as condescending of others religious beliefs as you want but you cannot win an argument by twisting facts or misquoting others statements.
First, scientists do not believe that man descended from apes either, but rather that they share a common ancestor. I do no care what others believe, so long as my children are not taught pseudo-science in the public schools. I respect all religions (except for Scientology.)
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