Carnivorousness

If you come in my cage I'll eat you too!

Thursday, March 29, 2007

People with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Disorder are nuts!

I worked with two women who claimed to have MCSD. In another post I mentioned that one of them was fired for vandalizing the toilets in the women's restroom. The other was fired for performance reasons. The commenters in the post below spend a lot of time looking up mentions of the fake disorder on the net and leaving irrational and insane comments on blogs that are critical of the fake disorder. Self centered hypocondriacs that look up their fake illnesses on the net all day are crazy. Having had close observations of people who claim to have the disorder, over a period of years, I can tell you that they are full of shit.

For one thing merely detecting an odor of something will set them off. Second they were control freaks about every other thing. One of them was very sensitive to sound. She could not stand the sound of a fan. So these people have compulsive disorders more likely than real chemical sensitivity.The proof is this, just because you can smell something does not mean that it is present in enough volume to cause a reaction.

Second, you can't be allergic to chemicals, you can be sensitive to them but you can only be allergic to natural substances. Yet these 2 women could not differentiate between an allergy to a natural substance and a sensitivity to a chemical substance. They both also claimed to be allergic to foods. Now my dad was allergic to every food there was. Seafood, peas and beans and eggs. If he ate any of these things he would die. Neither of these women ever experienced any thing of the sort.

We had Calosha out a bunch of times and they were unable to measure anything harmful and yet these kooks would start feeling dizzy anytime someone turned on the laminator. It is in their minds and only in their minds. One of the women was a Native American with naturally black hair. She bleached her hair blond. If the dye/bleach did not cause reactions, when it sat directly on her scalp for who knows how long, it was hard to believe that anything else could cause a reaction.

Working with these 2 gals made me ultra certain that anyone claiming to have MCSD was nuts in the extreme. As for me being crazy, yes I am, but I am willing to admit it. As for wearing scent and using hairspray and laminating items, I will do it as much as I like and especially when I am around silly people with fake MCSD.

44 Comments:

At 5:32 PM , Blogger missmolly said...

Wow, if that was my only experience with people with MCS, I wouldn't believe it was real, either.

Magnesium deficiencies are common in people with MCS and cause sound sensitivity and, among other things, raging PMS, but anybody that sensitive would likely have been too sick to work. Was that the woman who got fired for performance issues?

The bleached blond hair alone should have been making the other one sick, so never mind the laminating machine. Holy cow.

 
At 10:20 PM , Blogger Sal said...

Assumptions are a nasty way to maintain ignorance at the expense of others. You shoudl be ashamed of your poor attitude. Those woman are merely trying to live in a world destined to make them bedridden evenutally. It's time to wake up and get real.


MCS is genetic disease. There have been as many as 5 peer-reviewed scientific studyes on it. Three of those recent studies show that a genetic variant makes sufferers of multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) more likely to develop the condition. In 2004, McKeown-Eyssen studied 203 MCS sufferers and 162 controls and found that genetic differences relating to detoxification processes were present more often in those with MCS than those without. The study concluded that "a genetic predisposition for MCS may involve altered biotransformation of environmental chemicals. Haley found similar, confirmatory results in a 1999 study with the PON1 gene in Gulf War syndrome veterans.


A new study by Schnakenberg et al (2006) confirmed the genetic variation previously found by McKeown-Eyssen and Haley. A total of 521 unrelated individuals participated in the study. Genetic variants of four genes were analyzed: NAT2, GSTM1, GSTT1, and GSTP1. The researchers concluded that individuals who are NAT2 slow acetylators and those with homozygously deleted GSTM1 and GSTT1 genes are significantly more likely to develop chemical sensitivity.


According to the study the glutathione S-transferases act to inactivate chemicals so people without these GSTM1 and GSTT1 genes are less able to metabolize environmental chemicals. If a person cannot metabolize chemicals they build up in the body and cause disturbances in normal body function. Schnakenberg and fellow researchers explain that "glutathione S-transferases play an important role in the detoxification of chemicals... the deletion of this gene may be an important step in the early onset of diseases" which is a critical discovery that provides a biological basis behind the etiology of multiple chemical sensitivity.


The researchers also noted that diseases such as non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, hepatocellular and prostate carcinoma, and Alzheimer's disease have been associated with the common chemicals metabolized by GSTP1. The deletion of the GSTP1 gene leaves individuals more susceptible to developing these diseases, as lack of these genes means a loss of protection from oxidative stress.


I might also add that persons who cannot process environmental contaminants would react to what you consider "allergy" items too, not in an allergy sense, but in the same sense as chemicals. Natural orange oil, for example, contains d-limonene, which forms naturally when citrus is concentrated and is listed as very toxic to humans in material safety data sheets (MSDS). Natural flowers are often sprayed with scents to increase their smell, or sprayed with pesticides, weedicides, fungicides, and herbicids... all endocrine disruptors to humans. Foods also contain these "cides" sprayed on them along with many chemicals in the plastic wrap, packaging, etc. to retard spoilage, retard bacteria, repell water, etc. These things are simply toxins and toxicants that a person with the above genetic makeup cannot process effectively, which causes the symptoms.


Cited References:


Haley, RW, Billecke, S, & La Du, BN (1999). Association of low PON1 type Q (type A) arylesterase activity with neurologic symptom complexes in Gulf War veterans. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology 157(3):227-33.


McKeown-Eyssen, G, Baines, C, Cole, D, Riley, N, Tyndale, R, Marshall, L, & Jazmaji, V (2004). Case-control studies of genotypes in multiple chemical sensitivity: CYP2D, NAT1, NAT2, PON1, PON2 and MTHFR. International Journal of Epidemiology 33, 1-8.


Schnakenberg, E, Karl-Rainer, F, Stanulla, M, Strobl, N, Lustig, M, Fabig, N, & Schloot, W (2007). A cross-sectional study of self-reported chemical-related sensitivity is associated with gene variants of drug-metabolizing enzymes. Environ Health. 2007 Feb 10;6:6.


Lourdes "Sal" Salvador
President, MCS America www.mcs-america.org
Founder, MCS Hawaii www.mcs-hawaii.org
Co-Founder, MCS Awareness www.mcs-awareness.org
Partner, Environmental Education Week http://www.eeweek.org/
Partner, Collaborative on Health and the Environment (CHE) http://www.healthandenvironment.org

 
At 11:18 PM , Blogger dianabuckland MCS-Global said...

Here goes, I'll try and say a few things, but you're pretty nasty and disrespectful of an illness you obviously no nothing about - I run a website for Global Recognition of MCS - I don't have MCS but my son suffered badly from a little boy from pesticide and herbicide exposures as well as severe vax reaction at 4 months of age, I am finding I am being more and more bothered by the massive amount of chemically perfumed products that are everywhere and in so many products!! enough to knock down a bull elephant!!! I did suffer very badly after our house was sprayed with pesticide twice for fleas, I couldn't stop crying and my little boy became very ill indeed -
more and more people are becoming affected by the massive and widespread use of tens of thousands of synthetic chemicals - many are toxic, neurotoxic and carcinogenic chemicals - no-one in their right mind would want to be exposed to such things - I have recently left a gym in Australia (thankfully it is the only gym in Australia as far as I've heard that provides hairspray ) I couldn't stand the choking hairspray when Iwent to the locker rooms/toilets and asked them to stop providing it and provided them with a MSDS which is probably indicative of most hairspray chemical ingredients - they wouldn't listen -the warnings were that the ingredients thereof can cause cancer, birth defects, lung damage, liver damage, eye damage et al - they'll probably wait until some time in the future they will be sued when more and more of this information gets to the public - and more and more people become more intelligent and informed and make "the chemical connection" but, as nasty and disrespectful as you are, I certainly hope you never have to suffer MCS - but if you did, we'd all help you - because you'd need it. Please take the time to study my website www.mcs-global.org and all other MCS-Groups linked to this site - there is extensive data - there are many many corporations with massive financial interests at stake and they don't care about the health consequences of their products, they just want massive sales - I don't have any income, donations or anything for this website, only expenses - so it is truly an Awareness, Information, Education & Recognition website to help the population protect their health.

Thank you and please have a look - but please don't bother contacting me unless you have something respectful to say and that you have learned something from this site. Kind Regards to you, Diana Buckland

MCS-GLOBAL www.mcs-global.org
Global Campaign for Recognition of MULTIPLE CHEMICAL SENSITIVITY/Chemical Sensitivity/Environmental Illnesses, chemical injury & other chemically induced illnesses & diseases affecting civilians & military personnel

GLOBAL CHEMICAL POLLUTION & THE DISASTROUS EFFECTS THEREOF ON HUMAN HEALTH & ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH
Diana Buckland Founder & Global Coordinator
Kallangur, Queensland, Australia
Phone 61 + 7 - 32853573
Email: diana@mcs-global.org or dbucklan@bigpond.net.au

WEB MANAGER MCS-GLOBAL
Email: mcs-is_hell@tiscali.co.uk

 
At 11:51 PM , Anonymous Kathy said...

What people with MCS want other people to know.

We learn that there is no cure except for avoidance.

Many of us are forced out of jobs because workplaces are not Fragrance Free or MCS friendly.

Many of us are isolated in our homes.

Many of us try to educate the public about how common & devastating this invisible disability is.

Many children with MCS can not attend school.

Many people suffering with MCS can not attend religious services.

Many of can not travel to visit friends or family.

Many of us were professional people with degrees and made good livings.

Many of us have lost our families, our friends and our ability to earn a living because of the lack of understanding MCS by others.

Many of us can not get "safe" dental care and our teeth are in disrepair.

Many of us can not be hospitalized because fragranced chemicals are used in EVERY area of the hospital and nurses and doctors often wear Perfume so they can not come close to us.

Many of us have many other serious health disorders associated with MCS.

Many of us are homeless or on the verge of homelessness.

For those of us that still have a home, most of us can rarely leave our home.

Most of us can not have other people in our homes or go to other peoples homes due to Laundry detergent Fragrances, Bounce and Glade plug-in's, etc.

Many of us are very social but our need for isolation is one for survival.

Many of us want you to know that everyone is just one perfume spray away from becoming disabled with MCS.

 
At 12:15 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Miss C, what then do you think of all the doctors and researchers who have devoted their lives to studying and treating this 'fake' illness, like Dr. William Rea in Dallas and Martin Pall, PhD in Washington?

And what about our government, which recognizes MCS as a disability and awards SSDI based on this diagnosis?

All those people must be real idiots and you must be the smart one who knows what they're talking about, huh?!

Chemical intolerance is often a symptom of Lyme Disease, mercury poisoning, mold-related illness and other biotoxin illnesses (in addition to chemical injury, like pesticide poisoning). Sound sensitivity, electrical sensitivity, light sensitivity and touch sensitivity can all occur as well. Mast cell disorders, porphyria disorders, and elevated nitric oxide levels can all be involved. Oh, I guess you would also think all those are fake illnesses too.

I can guarantee that noone with MCS wants to have MCS. It's a nightmare beyond description. If someone develops extensive food and chemical sensitivities almost overnight, I think it's understandable that they might become a bit controlling of their environment and food, and a bit fanatic about researching their condition on the web - at least as long as your type of ignorance pervades our society and the medical world at large and keeps them from getting the information, care and support they need.

I'm sorry you had such a negative viewpoint of 2 co-workers with MCS. That doesn't mean that they did not have a real medical condition. And it certainly doesn't wipe out the authenticity of the millions of people suffering from some sort of environmental illness today.

Now, can you stop picking on people with a debilitating medical condition and talk about something else?

 
At 3:25 AM , Blogger Zona said...

I'm not surprised you think as you do. Once upon a time I might well have thought the same way. After all people with MCS do sometimes behave strangely, as do people with Lupus who complain the sun harms them, and people with MS who can walk one day but not the next.

You might also say that I'm nuts. I am. You see MCS does directly affect the functioning of the brain as well as other things.

Once upon a time I was like you, health and sane. Then I happened to live in California, like you do...but too close to an avacado grove where they did aerial spraying. When the weird symptoms began I could have well decided I was just that - nuts, for they were bizarre. However my baby was born with birth defects which were caused by pesticide poisoning... And it was OCHA and my doctor who educated me about how it effects the Central Nervous System and other things causing these weird symptoms. The long term diagnosis was MCS, CFS and FM. One of my other children ended up with the same. But then if a young, weight lifting,athletic, healthy looking male starts having bizarre symptoms he's just nuts too, right? Sadly that is how he was treated by some of his peers. (which is possibly more difficult to deal with than being chronically ill and unable to do those things you used to do and still wish to do.)

It's supprising that all these years later this condition is still mocked and the public is so ill informed. Not just for our sake but for yours. None of us wish to see yet another person end up with a life full of limitations when I might possibly be avoidable!

When I met my husband he was on beta blockers for chronic migraines. He had migraines more than 20 days a month and nothing would relieve them, not even the beta blockers. He was sure he didn't have MCS. Though he may have secretly wanted to roll his eyeballs he respected me enough to banish the fragrances and chemicals. Guess what? No more migraines! Made a believer out of him.

These days I try to teach my adult kids that though they might not have a problem with fragrances and chemicals they should use them sparingly, especially around the little ones whose small bodies don't need the extra work of detoxifying all that junk. They've seen me have reactions severe enough to require ER --from throat swelling akin to anaphylexic shock from perfumes --to know that it's not just a mental dillusion.

Taking the time to handle chemicals cautiously, having a well ventalated room when instructed to etc. might make the difference between being free to live your life the way you want to, and being confined. Sometimes it is a choice. But some, like you, figure it doesn't hurt them (now) so why bother?

But if that day comes when they find that they are the one who's having bizarre symptoms, whose brain is malfunctioning, who can't recall a word they know they know, who gasp for air around fumes, or stumble because their coordination suddenly goes, they're right there surfing the net trying to find all they can about that imaginary condition called MCS.

http://members.shaw.ca/zonaszone/illness/index.html

 
At 4:20 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch my face swell and lips go blue the next time I go into anaphylactic shock from your disgusting chemicals used to disguise your smelly body and you'll become a believer in MCS.

 
At 5:01 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

your condemnation of people suffering from mcs made me sad. not just for your office mates but for you. many medical conditions before they were understood scientifically were thought to have psychogenic origins and people with the diseases were labelled psychomsomatics. i think the next time you want to make a public proclamation about people with an illness you don't understand, you should at least provide a disclaimer that you don't have any medical training that includes experience treating people with mcs. or do you?

 
At 8:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My name is Susan:

I have had ES/MCS for many years.

My comment is about the food allergy section. Food allergy and food sensitivity are different. Just as one can be sensitive to chemicals one can also have this same kind of sensitivity to foods. Or one can have an immune response to foods that is not fatal. It can involve non IGE antibodies and be a delayed reaction like a headache.

If these women you encountered did have some psychological problems that does not mean they did not have sensitivies. Many psych patients have sensitivies and there are many people who do not have psych problems with sensitivities.

You obviously have judged these two people and decided what you think is going on. Personally I find that quite arrogant.

MCS can co-exist with any other health problem and just like any other subgroup of people they vary in their sensitivies and their lifestyle and their experiences.

Perhaps you need to educate yourself about this group of people and not judge based on two people you have come accross.

S

 
At 8:16 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope that one day your best friend doesn't have to come to you and say "I don't want to go out the perfumes bother me and everything smells like bug repellent and urinal pucks and then...I can't think, I get disoriented, I want to scream and then I will start to fall asleep." First sadness is that you would have to give each other up. Second sadness would be that you would be alone and the third sadness is in your loss you would be very alone. I hope MCS never finds you or the ones you love.

 
At 10:19 AM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

The crazy one cut the deodorizers in the bathroom and wrote "Scent free America" on the bathroom mirror. An act of eco-terrorism She also singled me out as I am the operrator of the laminator. She was really interested in controlling the behavior of others around her through intimidation. The blond one saw how the crazy one acted and began to speak less of her illness in reaction as she did not want to be in the same catagory as Miss Daisy.

 
At 10:54 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can't you see the woman just wants to go to the bathroom without having [convulsions] (fill in whatever her symptoms are)?

You take it for granted that you can use the bathroom without being assaulted but for the thousands/millions with MCS, using the bathroom can be very hazardous- and yes, it amounts to an assault on our bodies.

This is due purely to the use of chemicals in bathroom cleaners, air fresheners, hand soaps, and other common products in the bathroom. It's common sense then for someone with MCS to ask others to remove the chemicals. It's when people are callous and uncaring about another's plight and unwilling to make simple lifestyle changes that people with MCS get 'crazy' mad and start taking action to make the environment more safe for them and to try to educate others.

Sometimes the situation is so exasperating that they end up expressing their anger in socially unacceptable ways like writing messages on mirrors. I think if people were more respected and listened to, you'd see a lot less of that 'crazy' kind of behavior.

If fragranced items were removed from workplaces and social places, you'd see a big reduction in health issues for the whole population, not just those with MCS.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that chemicals are not good for you and can cause devasting health effects? Just read any MSDS sheet (Material Safety Data Sheet) and you'll see the list of harmful attributes given to each chemical.

Another thing is...we are all different genetically. There is a certain percentage of society that is going to be more genetically vulnerable to chemicals due to the lack of certain ezymes that help break down those types of toxins. Just like some people get seasonal allergies and other people have problems with mold. We are all different. We have to respect these differences and try to help others live in this world comfortably.

 
At 11:00 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i'd be pissed off too if my being able to work, breathe, and feel safe in this world came down to whether or not my co-workers were willing to give up their scented bathroom products or not. wouldn't you?

seems a bit silly to be so attached to perfume. what is the big deal? do you smell that bad underneath it??

 
At 12:14 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

2 peanuts were walking down the street, one was asalted

 
At 12:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

When chemicals are assaulting your brain, lungs or other parts of your body because of MCS, it is eminently reasonable to try to get rid of those chemicals. It would be nuts not to do so.

There is now compelling scientific evidence that MCS is a real biological phenomenon, with people being caused to be chemically sensitive by previous chemical exposure. There are a number of scientific papers reporting real, objective responses in those who are chemically sensitive to low level chemical exposure. And these are chemicals, not just odors. Most of the sensitivity responses do not involve the sense of smell.

 
At 1:48 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been known to take down washroom stinky things and bag them or to cover a stinky with a bag. I think fair is fair did you ask me if I wanted it?

Yes I would agree that you were dealing with a woman who just wanted power and control however I have dealt with another kind of bully who would wear perfume just to make me uncomfortable. I had to explain to her that she was stealing at least 50% of my wages from the company because it would make me useless. I ended up quiting the job and she ended up in behaviour modification class if she wants to keep her job. lol

 
At 4:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is starting to sound like an Oprah Show!

 
At 4:05 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

Sounds like you have issues with controling others. Why don't you just get in and get out if the bathrom instaed of "handling" the items. Or just wear some adult diapers like the baby you are. There is nothing physically wrong with you, you have OCD, which is a mental condition.

The majority of us wanted scent in the bathroom. Miss MCSD/OCD was not suited to work here. We have to laminate items. There are plenty of workplaces in the world and you need to find one that suits you instead of infringing on the rights of others both, to do their jobs and to groom themselves as they see fit.

 
At 4:54 PM , Anonymous Penlady said...

Most of us with MCS are not even able to work or go shopping, and live a life of pain and unexplainable symptoms that makes life not worth living, but we don't want to hurt those who love us by leaving this world, either. My friend--until you have felt this hell, and lost your spouse, friends,lifestyle, dreams, posessions, career and even your personality to its effects, don't assume that its not real. Assume makes an ass of u and me. (Ass/u/me) Yes you can be allergic to chemicals. When my mom's throat swells shut around chlorine or water with chlorine added, thats anaphylactic sock, a lethal allergy. People's immune systems can get damaged and do very strange things.They start to attack your own body. This is called auto-immune disease, or body allergic to/fighting itself. The symptoms don't even make sense to us, but we still get them. No matter how sick we get, we can't get any treatment, because there isn't any yet. Just imagine being so sick with about 5 horrible symptoms all at once, and it looks as if you are going to die, and you are taken to the emergency room, where they can do things to keep you alive, but not to ease the symptoms in that prison of a damaged body you are in, and you will probably be insulted by the medical staff who also don't understand the disease, right when you are too sick to defend yourself...and then they send you home to try to carry on as if nothing was wrong at all, and when you are no longer able to do that, you lose everything and almost everyone that you held dear in life. Would anyone fake an illness that causes all this to happen?I really hope you don't get this disease.I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I believe in fate, because I have seen many times when someone cruelly pre-judged another person wothout knowing all the facts, they themselves later became sick, so it seemed nature's way of making that person understand the ill person.
Penlady

 
At 5:02 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have it backwards Miss C. It's YOU who are infringing on others' rights when you wear perfume. It's not just a matter of SCENT. It's a matter of a chemical toxin that causes damage to another person. For you to wear perfume around me, it's the equivalent of you coming up to me and squeezing my neck so I couldn't breathe. That's exactly what happens when I breathe in air freshener and perfume. My lungs shut down. Plain and simple. Whether you believe it or not, it still happens.

 
At 10:39 PM , Anonymous Karen said...

Penlady, I believe you. Every few years after my daily shower, I start sneezing, my nose runs and my eyes water. It is the same reaction people allergic to pollen have. But, for me it is something in my shampoo, soap or conditioner that is causing it. My symptoms last all day. By night, my ribs hurt from sneezing so much. If I am lucky, I will guess which offending item is causing it and not use it in the shower the next day. If I am unlucky, it will take 3 very uncomfortable days. I am lucky in that this only happens every few years after using the same product for a while. I couldn't live everyday like this.

 
At 11:59 PM , Blogger Zona said...

Miss C

I see you got a lot of action on your blog by posting this topic. Perhaps not a bad tactic.

After reading the comments and your response I got curious. If you were a mom who had a child who had peanut allergy, you know the really bad life threatening kind, how would you feel about your your child's classmates insisting on having peanut butter under his nose?

 
At 1:05 PM , Anonymous Donna said...

Miss Carnivorous, I was thinking not to waste my time posting a comment, especially since these fantastic responses to you have voiced most of what I would want to say on the subject, BUT...it's very hard to hold my tongue when I see this kind of attitude. This is not to say that when I was young, before I got sick (I became symptomatic at only 20 years old), that I wouldn't have had a difficult time understanding MCS. But would I have been so mean? I highly doubt it. Of course, that was also 30 years ago, before most people were aware of what kind of toxins we were dealing with on this planet (worse indoors than out!), and are MUCH worse now than ever.(Btw, I recently came up with "Toxin Injury Illness" which is more accurate and here I will now refer to MCS as TII.)

Firstly, I can only assume you are fairly young because your EXTREME insensitivity to chemical sensitivities is very immature. I realize that this woman writing on mirrors "seemed" nuts, but she wasn't. I'm not saying it was the best way to handle the situation, but I am assuming (totally understanding her frustration), that she probably lost whatever patience she had in trying to make the people around her understand the issue, obviously having been completely ignored and poo-poohed.

I do agree that she shouldn't be working there anymore because I'm sure there was more than just a toxic laminating machine and air fresheners she was contending with. But the fact is -- I'm sure she really needed her job, and doing without an income because you have no other work alternative is something you'd better hope you're never faced with. One of the many things you don't understand is that people afflicted with TII generally can't work ANYwhere doing much of ANYthing.

Trust me, you are still healthy, but by deliberately defying the issue, your narrow-minded thinking, and complete ignorance on how the body works increases the chance that this COULD happen to YOU! (I can hear you snorting with laughter and thinking, "Yeah, right!...this is ignorance.) NO person who is afflicted with this was BORN with it! They were only born with the genetic susceptibility, which you may have but have no idea! You can't possibly know when you're about to breach your immune systems threshold. You, along with most people, are playing russian roulette every time you use these products that are LOADED with toxins!!!!

You need to open your mind and shut your mouth until you've learned more. Once you have, you MAY see exactly how wrong you are with this. That's when it would be YOU demanding a toxin-free environment at work, more ventilation and things to protect YOUR health. I get the feeling though, that you are not the kind of person who would ever admit it, even to yourself.

Tell me: Do you think smoking contributes to lung cancer? Do you think radiation causes cancer? Well, they do, and toxins can not only cause cancer, but many other things, including a faulty immune system (due to the bombardment of these toxins) that canNOT tolerate MOST (sometimes ALL) exposures, both natural and chemical. And if you understood anything about the human body and the fact that we are all individuals, you would also realize that people can react to different substances differently, the gamut of reactions running from mild to fatal.

TII has ruined my life. Hope it doesn't ruin yours or anyone you love because, whether you like it or not, this illness is increasing exponentially, and the term will be on your tongue as often as cancer, asthma, autism, MS and lots of other conditions. You need to wake up and become a bit more vegetarian-minded, Miss Carnivorous. With an attitude like yours, I would be greatly surprised if you ever have a lasting, meaningful and relatively happy relationship with anyone in your life. You would first have to grow out of being the extremely critical, close-minded, condescending and selfish woman you are at this point in your life. You must enjoy being mean. Why else would someone be proud of calling herself such a thing?

 
At 2:34 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

MCSD is not even equivalent to a peanut allergy, one is real, one is imagined.

 
At 2:40 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

Oh, finally someone catches on. My blog is all about being selfish, mean and close minded. Uh, duh. I do not deny it.

But I will tell you this, there are few people more selfish that those with fake MCSD. Many of you have admitted that you have lost everything, because of your mental illness and vivid imaginations. I have heard of people like you shaving off your own hair because your are allergic to yourselves.

You are definitely selected against and should not breed.

 
At 3:28 PM , Anonymous Steve C said...

Afraid MCS is quite real, even though it can't possibly occur given the basic theory underlying the practice of medicine today.

Think of it as a noise margin problem in the nervous system, kind of like a noisy phone call (if you're old enough to have ever been on a non-digital long distance call) except it's the nervous system's ability to function that's on the line.

And since the basic substances used by various synapse types in the nervous system are in the bloodstream at concentrations of 10^-10 to 10^-12, it doesn't take but interfering with a fraction of a microgram of something in the bloodstream to make a big momentary difference in how the nervous system works.

Seems what was expressed here was prejudice...and I'm used to dealing with prejudice against my disability. Since I was poisoned in a sick house incident over a decade ago.

 
At 3:57 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

It is natural for the strong to despise the weak. Darwinism is what it is.

 
At 7:37 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This correspondence clearly shows the sorry state of our education - rather lack of it. Ms Carnivorous is not an open minded person, not someone who is willing to learn or capable to understand how the world around her works for real. She would need chemistry class, some biology, biochemistry, perhaps genetic studies too.
Some studies on humanities clearly a must, lessons on how to respect one another, live and let live, not to discriminate on any bases - not even based on health status. Would be as bad as any discrimination, wouldn't it?

The comments she makes are intentionally hurtful and disrespectful towards other human beings, dealing with a very real health problem.
The smart, patient and thoughtful responses, describing the problem of MCS for what it is can't get through easily on this wall of narrow-mindedness, ignorance as strong as strong as concrete dam.

I am a great believer of education, but in cases like this, it is often a waste of time to try to fill knowledge in the head of the reluctant.
Science will go on regardless - it always does. Knowledge will spread among those, who can learn - most of us do very well.
But there will always be some who resists and becomes an annoyance, because of self -righteousness and because they are blinded by their own ignorance.

ms carnivorous, can you write down at least one sentence that meaningfully support your point of view?
I haven't seen any.
It makes you the weak. And look, how many people tried to help you anyway. To gain some insight on something as complex as MCS is hard for you and you are not alone.
But it doesn't make your point of view right by any means. It certainly doesn't make it right to try to humiliate other people who you are incapable to understand.

Not knowing something on the first place is not a problem. Not wanting to learn about it to your best ability is a tragedy. First of all, yours, if this is really your best.

--wlf--

 
At 8:15 PM , Anonymous Donna said...

Along with extremely critical, close-minded, condescending and selfish, let me add arrogant and just plain stupid. If you want to talk about Darwinism (talk about fake), I think we've found the missing link in a mean, meat-eating "person". You are pathetic and I'm certainly glad you're not in MY life. You could make anyone's life a living hell, let alone someone who's LEGITIMATELY ill! For anyone who is actually proud of being selfish, mean and close-minded -- the truth is, all of us who are trying to help you understand what you are so completely ignorant about have better things to do with our time, and honestly, fellow MCSers -- I'd like to suggest dumping this asinine, futile blog.

 
At 1:34 AM , Blogger Beelza-Bubba said...

If..., you were..., ONLY..., a little MORE..., Open-minded, like US! You..., may-BE..., enlightened, Miss C!
(Read this first line as if you were Bill Shatner)
So, all you MCS supporters are basically saying that anyone that does not think the way you do is close-minded? Well, how very close-minded of you to think that way!
Oh, and for all of your Scientific Studies...,
Remember, even scientists are slaves to the almighty dollar, and if they smell any grant money to be had, they will study anything, and present "any" negligable findings in the grant givers' favor to get more of it. So, please don't be so ready to believe every study you may have just skimmed through, or just heard about.
It is also disturbing to me, that one individual, can hold an entire workplace "hostage" because they complain that they have MCS and they can claim to be "sensitive" to something without producing any real medical records to prove it. Disturbing indeed!
Like the bathroom scent dispensers that have been mentioned in many of the posts before mine. Please keep in mind, that many of these scent dispensers, dispense an "Anti-Baterial" scent solution. You folks love all things that are "anti-bacterial" do you not? So they cannot really be all that bad, right?
Here is more of an example for you:
This Miss Daisy person, that Miss C wrote about, who claimed that she had MCS, but was able to overcome her MCS long enough to destroy the scent dispensers in the bathroom, while not only breathing in these harmful fumes, but more than likely getting this life threatening chemical on her person, and then staying in the same enclosed area to write the "Scent Free America" message and then going back to work as if nothing had happened without having died, no oozing skin rash, hell, not even at least passing out from being over-exposed to the supposed life-threatening chemical. If her "MCS" was real, like a true allergy, then she would have rather crapped in her capris, than get within scent distance of that chemical. So tell me, can someone with MCS do this amazing feat, and still come out of it unaffected, and if so, how?
Here is what I think: you are not actually affected by the scent, chemical, or whatever it is, and that you are really just so annoyed by it, that you make yourself "sick" just by sitting there stewing about it.
In some of the past posts, I have noticed that MCS people have said that they have suffered from shortness of breath, dry throat, constricted breathing, rapid pulse rate, hot/cold sweats, chest pains, sour stomach, coughing, nausea, vomiting, headaches, bodyaches, rashes, and other "weird" unexplainable feelings..., well you are not going to like this, but I think that I must welcome you all to the wacky world of Anxiety Attacks. All of the above mentioned "symptoms" and more, fall under an anxiety attack. I know this, because I used to have them, a lot! I had a couple real medical incidents, that made me start to worry about every little ache, and pain, as if there were something really bad happening to me. There were also other things happening in my life that I would let screw with my mind as well, and this would all add more fuel to the illusion. I would sit there, and stew on the "weird feeling, or pain" and eventually work myself up into a trip to the Hospital, or the Emergency Room. If you can feed your mind enough bullsh*t about feeling sick, you will succeed in convincing yourself that you are sick, but it is really only in your mind. Because even when you get the ER tests back, and they are all normal, you will convince yourself that they had to have missed something, and with that, you will be able to further convince yourself that you have something terribly wrong with you. This stuff went on with me for a long while, and it would have continued for a lot longer if a very good friend of mine didn't step in time, and time again, to tell me that it was all in my head, and to stop worrying about being "sick" and about other things. It took awhile for me to get a grip on what she was telling me, and I began to "see" what she meant. I was able to recognize when these "weird feelings/pains" would occur, and the "symptoms that would follow. I tried different ways to "convince" myself that I was not sick, or dying, but what I found that finally worked for me was that I would basically insult myself out of the Anxiety Attack that was about to occur, and it worked every time! I have not had an Anxiety Attack in quite a long time now, thanks to my friend for caring enough about me to tell me that I was basically being an idiot.
All I can say is that I wish you all had a friend, or friends, that cared enough about you, like I did, to tell you that you are not sick, and that you are just being idiots as well. Also, just for shits n' giggles, go out and get a real Allergy test done to yourself, just to make sure that you are not really suffering from an actual allergy, and blaming it on a chemical sensitivity. This is just my own opinion, and if you don't like it, too bad!

Be Seeing you on Satan's Soul Farm!
Beelza-Bubba

 
At 12:59 PM , Anonymous Donna said...

Well, I couldn't resist coming in to see what other comments would be made, and as expected, there's another one. Only this time it's not the carnivorous one who posted -- it is a new voice of non-reason, which is why I feel compelled to post when I really didn't want to waste my time.

Miss Beelza-Bubba (talk about Satanistic), you, along with your cohort, the Carnivorous one, have again shown your ignorance and myopic way of thinking. Every person I know (and I personally know hundreds!) who has MCS has gone through EVERY kind of testing, including all kinds of allergy testing and guess what? -- it shows! Brain scans show it, and lots of other tests show it. Thankfully, in recent years, many scientists and researchers are finding evidence enabling to pinpoint possible causes for. It is VERY real.

It was YOU, who have had an illness that was CAUSED by a psychological disorder so you can ONLY think that these things could be caused by someone psychologically imbalanced. This shows exactly how close-minded you are! Some health problems actually ARE caused by psychological problems, as you have experienced first hand, while other health problems that doctors can't understand (although more and more are coming to understand MCS) and don't want to admit their inability to diagnose it properly will easily diagnose the cause as "stress". How is it that it was a FRIEND who "diagnosed" you, and no doctor pointed to "anxiety attacks"? Fortunately for you she just happened to be right. So, with that fact in mind, should we point at you and say it's bull because a DOCTOR didn't diagnose the problem? Why did she even know about it? Because it is a disorder that has been established as "real". At one time you would've just been considered insane and possibly institutionalized!

You, unlike people who are constantly researching and studying these things and are actually LIVING the horror of the illness, has absolutely NO clue whatsoever what "proof" is out there and the sources that put that proof forth, along with OUR first hand experience with it.

As I, and others, have tried to point out: there are many ranges of reactions, from mild to fatal. You obviously don't "get it", showing your ignorance, by making the moronic statement that EVERYone with MCS would automatically DIE if they were exposed to something harmful and offensive. Some would, but most will just continue to gradually spiral downward until they reach the point that the symptoms worsen to the point of being bedridden and completely unable to function "out" in the world.

I have been ill with this since I'm 20 years old (almost 30 years!), half of that time I had NO idea why I had the symptoms I did. For several years I was diagnosed with different things by different doctors, none of them right, and I, like you, was made aware of the main cause of my health problems by my sister-in-law and a magazine article -- NOT a doctor! What I was finally led to were the RIGHT doctors who actually had KNOWLEDGE in these areas. It was a long and torturous road finally getting the right answers, and although I am disabled by it and can't work, I still try to live my life. I don't "dwell" on it or make myself more ill by thinking about it. Instead, when I am in situations out in the world, I bring my mask, I try to do some normal things, but ultimately, by the continued exposures over the years, I'm sicker! Do you know what was the turning point (only 5 months ago) that has made me spiral down even farther? My mother used Easy-Off oven cleaner BEFORE I left the house. That one toxic exposure had made me much worse, and I was already severe before that. I also have SEVERE neurotoxicity (SHOWN through a SPECT scan in 1992 -- PROOF), and all of my symptoms are now worse. So don't think that someone with MCS can't get sicker! We can which is why we VOICE IT AS LOUDLY AS WE CAN!!!! I was seemingly healthy before I became symptomatic at only 20 years old. The facts are: I was becoming mercury toxic (I suppose you don't believe mercury is toxic either?) due to the amalgam fillings in my mouth, and being an artist I was continuously exposed to harmful materials (NEVER warned!) -- I used to wash my hands with turpentine! Don't go trying to tell me I was the type to be "afraid" and "brought on" my problems! It took 15 years before I was even able to start putting together the pieces to finally figure out why I had symptoms! Are you "seemingly" healthy? BEWARE!

Making the environment safe for a chemically sensitive (due to INJURY) person is virtually impossible, but for those who haven't reached their immune system's threshold (like YOU) CAN be helped by lessening the toxins! This includes air-fresheners!

Honestly, I think this Daisy woman was expecting too much from her work place as far as the laminating machine since it's part of what is used there, but things like air-freshener and fragrances can EASILY be removed. The world is too overloaded with harmful exposures so, whether she liked it or not, she really shouldn't have been working there anymore. She WAS of course, trying to also enlighten the people around her who could also end up like her. People like the carnivor won't listen to that warning, so constantly breathing in the indoor fumes from the machine (and God knows what else) will bombard her immune system. She's been warned and should be demanding better ventilation, but is too ignorant to realize it's necessary. Do you people think OSHA was put in place for no good reason? Granted, their standards are definitely not sufficient, but if they didn't enforce SOME stringent guidelines, work places would be that much more toxic.

And for your information, MCSers are well aware that ANTI-bacterial formulas are BAD!!! You are confusing MCSers with people who are germophobic! The anti-bacterial products on the market not only contain harmful chemicals, but along with killing any harmful bacteria, they are killing off the GOOD bacteria we NEED! So...have you learned something new? That MCSers are not necessarily GERMOPHOBES?! That anti-bacterial products are HARMFUL?! That the world actually IS full of harmful toxins?! You are another one who needs to open your mind, and LEARN before you open your mouth.

And by the way, I have many friends, and of most of the people in my life, thankfully only a handful of family and friends have minds like you and Miss Carnivor. It took years, but once my many friends and family UNDERSTOOD what MCS (and things related) were all about, they HAVE accommodated me when we have family gatherings or I visit their homes as best they could. Thank GOD they are sympathetic, otherwise I'd NEVER be able to spend time with them. In these 15 years since I finally knew what was plaguing me, I have been warning people about what can happen and to do their best to avoid harmful chemicals. Ironically, I am watching quite a few people I know and love, gradually becoming more and more chemically sensitive. It makes my heart ache. They were also warned.

Sincerely, I am glad for you that your friend was knowledgeable enough to be able to point you in the right direction. Because of her you have avoided more years of pain and fear. The thing is, Anxiety Disorder, once that was finally understood and considered REAL, is a MUCH easier disorder to diagnose! If nothing else, you should have MORE empathy for MCSers and others whose maladies were MISdiagnosed for decades -- NOT condescending persecution! YOU can call MCSers close-minded?! Hell -- if we were, we never would've continued the search for answers and would just think the many doctors of unknowledgeable conventional medicine knew EVERYthing. Because the lives of MCSers has either been greatly diminished or changed in VERY drastic ways because of it, most of us are continuously searching for any possibilities of relief for the many symptoms we suffer with and answers to the life-style challenges we face. Thank GOD we get support from each other, constantly offering help and new information to deal with all of it, and that includes venting about the kind of condemnation that's been voiced here.

Should I assume you are one of those who believes Global Warming is a "fake" theory? It is fact, my dear. The threat of terrorism is fact, not theory. The threat of AIDS and other plagues is fact, not theory. The exponential increase of major (and new) illnesses in the past few decades, along with major climate shifts, is fact, not theory. The list goes on and on, and on that list is: the continued increase of Toxin Injury Illness (MCS) -- this is FACT, not theory.

You both not only have a LOT of growing up to do, you have a LOT to learn, and yes, your minds are CLOSED.

 
At 2:18 PM , Anonymous Donna said...

Miss Carnivorous, I clicked on your "About Me" photo link because I was curious what kind of person would be like this. I was shocked to see that you are a grown woman! It also seems your grandmother knew you very well! lol

I scrolled down and came across your post on "Chemical Warfare". After reading your account of the "flowers" incident with "Ms. Daisy", it's VERY understandable why you might feel as you do about MCS. You are totally wrong on many accounts though -- largely because you have generalized (which may be what you do with many things -- generalize).

This particular woman sounds like she was very self-centered and only concerned for her own health and discomfort, so I have to rescind my defense of her also being concerned about the other people around her. Her not being sensitive to this man's allergy to the flowers (which may also have been partially due to the pesticides and other chemicals they were doused in!), was totally insensitive and selfish. Trust me, MOST people who suffer with MCS are VERY empathetic to other people's ailments, regardless of what they are!

The fact that you have experienced many people you know and love who've had some serious problems (asthma, etc.), and those with nasty allergies to generally natural things does NOT mean you understand the nature of MCS. This is a VERY backward and narrow-minded way of thinking. At one time I only thought allergies were when people had reactions like rashing, wheezing, vomiting, runny nose, watery eyes type stuff. The fact is that allergies of any kind can come from all sorts of things (why would you ever consider harmful chemicals void of possibility?) and people can have all sorts of reactions to these things (as you have also been witness to!) Some allergies show in ways that the average population doesn't even notice. Ex: lethargy due to eating something like corn. No one really pays attention to lethargy in a child -- they just think "that's the way they are" or "he's just lazy", or if a child always misbehaves and acts up after eating food that contains food coloring or aspartame or whatever. They classify him as "spoiled" or "unruly", blaming his personality. Sometimes it's true -- the child may actually be lazy (though most have energy!), spoiled or unruly, but many times they are being exposed to or are ingesting something that CAUSES their behavior. It's not any different with adults.

What you need to understand is the difference between someone with ONE ailment like an allergy to eggs, to someone who has become chemically sensitive. Even within the MCS community itself, every day we can see how some people are sensitive to what others can tolerate, and vice-versa. One person might be able to use Elmer's Glue, while another can't be near it without getting dizzy or have some other strong reaction. One person will choose not to go anywhere near the toxins, while another will use it anyway because it's SO hard being so limited as to not be able to use or do the simply things we used to be able to. When your immune system and central nervous system have been so sensitized and damaged by the bombardment of chemical exposures, you are not allergic/sensitive to just those one or two things -- you become more and more allergic to more and more things as exposures continue. The reality of it is that, because of the way things are manufactured, and the way civilization itself now runs, there is virtually nowhere that is truly safe, especially if you're in an area that's more populated; this illness is inescapable and most times, exposures are unavoidable. Bubble-like living is horrible and having MCS is NOT something anyone in their right mind would want to fake (nor be able to, mind you). How much of a bubble someone WANTS to live in is generally decided by the person's personality and necessities in life. When even that person, who doesn't live in a bubble-like existence continues to be exposed, they eventually are FORCED to live in a relative bubble. What would ever make you think that people WANT to miss out on all the things they used to be able to do? Another factor is also that the olfactory nerve is one of the most sensitized AND immediate pathways, making a person feel much like a hounddog, detecting things others can't. Everything about it is a difficult way to exist, believe me.

Of course, for me, suffering with something this difficult has ultimately, in the long run, made me a better, more tolerant person in general, so along with bad, some good always comes. It also got me back into writing, which I never would have done otherwise, and these are only a couple of things I mention.

Some people become sensitized with one very large, toxic exposure (a chemical spill, a period of heavy renovations, etc.) and others, like myself, become sicker gradually. My body was slowly burdened from when I was a young child because my body was RETAINING (probably due to a missing enzyme) the mercury in the vapor released from my amalgam fillings. All my toxic exposures from then on gradually broke down my immune system until I became chronically symptomatic. I had no clue why and attributed my brain fog (I had a fantastic memory as a child), joint pains and muscle pain and weakness to poor lifestyle. I was only 20 and should never have felt those symptoms from poor lifestyle! Are you aware that the Gulf War Syndrome is chemical in nature? Those of us in the MCS community knew it was chemically caused from the get-go. It was evident to those of us who know it all too well. It took years before the powers-that-be could no longer deny it.

Anyway, it is not in my nature to complain or want to be catered to (I was the only woman of the 25 or so other new mothers in maternity to heal quickly because I, even with fibromyalgia, forced myself to walk right away, the day after a cesarean), so the fact that I have to ask anyone to accommodate me in these ways is TOTALLY against my nature, but necessary for my own preservation. I'm not unreasonable with my demands (such as Ms. Daisy was), and the times that people aren't willing to accommodate me (including family), simply shows their unwillingness to sacrifice, and this hurts. It would be no different than someone in a wheelchair unable to operate the chair themselves, asking to be pushed, and that someone not be willing to do it.

I also cannot work anywhere to earn a steady income (and I can't even stuff envelopes at home!) because it would be unreasonable for any employer to be able to accommodate my illness to the extent it would be needed (which is far beyond air-freshener and perfume). That's not to say I don't do things that are harmful to my health in order to earn money here and there to pay for necessities, or occasionally go places or do things just to have SOMEthing similar to "a life", always risking my health and getting sicker (and it HAS made me much more ill in doing so).

I am writing this because I see why you have the perspective you do and am pointing out why it is very wrong of you to base the entire illness of MCS and MCSers in general by your experience with this one woman who was apparently a self-centered *itch.

And I also can't help but wonder why "You're nasty. Nasty all the time." Maybe YOU have an unknown allergy that makes you that way! lol

 
At 5:26 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

There is no scientific proof of MCSD. You all are wasting your time, but I have noticed that that is what a lot of you types do. You have too much spare time. You can't work because you imagine things are bothering you around the workplace, so you spend a lot of time concentrating on your weird imagninary symptoms. I do resent having to pay disability for your malingering asses. get over yourselves and get jobs like everybody else, losers.

 
At 5:35 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

Yeah one time at work Beelze Bubba drank a big gulp sized lemonade/ raspberry drink or strawberry or some such acidic concoction. Then he stated to get serious chest pains and ended up in the emergency room. I remember saying to him, "well of course you have chest pains, you just drank a bunch of citric acid," or something to that effect and he looked at me as if I was crazy. I have noticed that since Kaiser starting charging $50 dollars for an emergency visit if there turns out to be nothing seriously wrong with you, Beelze has stopped stopping in the emergency room, or it could just be his new healthy lifestyle.

 
At 10:03 AM , Blogger Beelza-Bubba said...

If you folks haven't realized it by now, I am not a "Miss" but a "Mister", and that if you haven't been to a "real" doctor lately, they are pretty much afraid to give you any opinion, firm answer, or even a possible solution to your problem/illness. They will tell you many different things, and skirt around what might actually be going on, and then prescribe any number of pills, ointments, and inhalers to just get you out of their office. Of course, none of these medicines ever worked, because it was all in my head!
Later on when my "attacks" where more under control, and pretty much gone, I mentioned the panic/anxiety attacks to my doctor, and she agreed that that was what I probably had been experiencing. It would have been nice of my doctor to give me this bit of info after so many ER, and frequent hospital visits.
Miss C has been witness to many people's behavior/craziness, and is very observant, and insightful. Also, yes, this is what happened to me, and I am suggesting that some of you are probably experiencing these sort of attacks as well. I wouldn't believe what Miss C told me at first, but the more she would tell me about it, the more I thought about it. I really think you folks are resisting the knowledge that many of your ills could be all in your head, just like I did at first. Try to think about it, I know that it is hard for you to do, but just do it.

 
At 11:52 AM , Anonymous Donna said...

Dear Lucifer, how could I possibly know you were a "Mr." from ONE post I read. I am not a fan of this blog and was directed here by someone who was also aggravated by the muck being thrown around in here about MCS.

I was actually being NICE, seeing where the Carnivor babe's misconceptions (insightful?!! I've never laughed so hard!!!) stemmed from (which I didn't blame her for, having dealt with a b*tch like Daisy girl), but as both your posts have reaffirmed -- you are BOTH nasty, close-minded, pathetic AND, I might add -- ignorant ***holes, so of course, I throw "niceness" out the proverbial door.

This IS my last post because, contrary to your belief, I have a LOT of things to do in my life that are SO much more valuable and important than getting caught up in a futile showdown with you people. I've never "twiddled my thumbs" in my life. Thank God you aren't in charge of anything that really matters. In the scheme of things, your nasty, ignorant opinions are meaningless. I am very fond of this particular farewell and will NOT be returning to read anymore asinine comments.

 
At 3:27 PM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

Thank Gawd they are finally gone!

 
At 9:04 PM , Blogger Beelza-Bubba said...

BOO-YAH!!!
Lite up a Dura-Flame log n' celebrate! We can watch all the cool chemically enhaced colors dance in the fire place. Not to mentioned breath in that Dura Log scent!

Kickin' a Dead Horse Time:
Oh Donna dear,
If you happen to still be reading this most hated blog, I must ask why on earth would you just assume I was a "Miss" in the first place by just reading one post???
We are closed minded only because we do not follow your beliefs, and yes, GLOBAL WARMING is BOOLSHEET!
As for you getting a laugh out of my "insightful" comment, about Miss C, well, you do not know her, so I feel sorry for you. But it is great that I was able to make someone, such as yourself, laugh so hard. It has been my experience that you people have no sense of humor whatsoever.
I will now thank you, and the others, who have posted on this subject for making me almost wet myself with laughter over all of your comments. You folks are a hoot! Seriously, I love you guys!

Stop by, n' say Hi! When you get to Satan's Soul Farm, where everything we plant was originally organic!

 
At 10:13 AM , Blogger Miss Carnivorous said...

Be el, you is mean!

 
At 6:49 AM , Anonymous Parikeltias said...

no, they are alive and well, and they'll continue to stay here. Materlialism such as yours wields power, but resilience and gentility such as theirs also holds power. Carnivorous needs to be an omnivore and Beelz-bub needs synergy or life-giving nature in his life. Bunch of degenerative, leechers of society. Go and commit suicide, you are unwanted in the gene pool.

 
At 6:55 AM , Anonymous Parikeltias said...

I'm glad my comment turned up years later, that's the way the world works bunch of narrow-minded children. Not close-minded hint, b/c both sides are. It's just the void doesn't exist, you dimwits and artificial chemicals including derived natural chemicals secluded from their natural chemical synergy and GE crops don't exist to begin with. Void has no value, and ends up toiling away with no one in the end as they lose their friends who alter overtime and become sensitive to artificial chemicals as they live with them all the time as the cells deteriorate in their understanding of them. Too bad science is non-existent. Only nature is science, and everything that comes from nature gets abused like artificial drugs that come from herbs and industrial perfume and vaccines and GE crops and petroleum that leads to global warming.

 
At 7:18 AM , Anonymous Parikeltias (Part Angel spirit) said...

let me also point out something -pulls the cheeks of these two brats-
When one can intensely pick up the scent of a perfume while the people around you can hardly smell it there, explain the reason behind it. ...The reason is that their bodies accumulate overtime, the chemicals from what they consume and use, as these molecules bond with other molecules in the body and remain, basic chemistry. They're bodies are accustomed to the loads.

Also when someone like me (anecdotal and might be bias, I know) has different side-effects with each perfume, some I can't tell. They are tested so that there's a safe limit as to their toxic burden on a body, the only problem is they are still affected but not materlialized symptoms. They are hidden, but small unnoticeable symptoms. I never get sick, I handle the cold without a hoodie with no shirt on or jacket, but hey that's me, I never was like that though. There's no science behind it, b/c science can't come up with the answers, but it might in the future. When one, yes eats organically, sleeps when the sun sets, only uses whole raw cleaning products, introduce themselves to bad bacteria strains and improve immunity and so on and so on, they're minds can't become delirious as their mentality is toughened, banded, and powered. They become like hounds, able to perceive things clearer since they live on the outside in the wild.

 
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